I am sad to say that I won’t be at New York Fashion Week this year… I’ve never been before so I had daydreams of attending and covering the fabulosity for Afrobella. But the very next week I’ve got somewhere more magical and important to be — I’ll be going to my sister-in-law’s Seventies karaoke wedding in VEGAS!! I am so excited, and I’m looking for the perfect Seventies style plus size dress. (Got any suggestions? Holla at a bella!)
Even though I won’t be able to hobnob with the fashionistas, I know quite a few of the beauty bloggers I respect and admire will be on hand to cover events as they happen.
I look forward to reading the coverage and criticism on Jezebel and Make Fetch Happen. And my beauty blogging amigas The Makeup Girl, 99 Products, and Shake Your Beauty (OMG Tia is so beautiful and glowing right now!) will definitely be covering events and sharing makeup tips, so I’ll be keeping track of what they’re saying.
According to The Cut, New York magazine’s awesome fashion blog, the whitewashed trend of colorless models might be more or less over — as explained in this unfortunate quote by casting director Daniel Peddle.
“Another thing this season is trying to discern from all the girls out there the ones that are ethnically ambiguous. Girls and boys that have faces that you can’t just put in a certain place or race or geography. I think it’s very helpful to see those types of faces in our conflicted world because you can see that we’re still evolving as humans and they are the results of people willing to go beyond the socially constructed notions around race … With the Internet and the way that everyone is so connected now it’s not something you can overlook anymore. I don’t think it’s possible to do a modern show and have it be all blondes. I understand that sometimes a designer has an aesthetic that dictates something like that and of course we’re going to work with them to achieve their goals but personally I don’t find that to be a very modern statement.”
So… I guess this is a step in the right direction, but I still find myself questioning the industry. Why go for ambiguity when you could just — be diverse? And show models of a variety of ethnicities, and celebrate the spectrum of beauty without being cliche and stereotypical? Is it THAT hard? Arrrrgh!
I am trying to reserve judgment until I see the models on the runway, but I think I already see where this is going. It kind of looks like a hat tip to Vogue Italia — see, we can be down with black models too! — but in the most cautious, selective, vague manner possible. Which goes against what fashion should be about in the first place, right?
What do you think, bellas? What are your expectations for Fashion Week? What are your hopes?
Wow. I’m w/you, Bella. When will our society be able to simply accept and celebrate diversity.
I feel ya!
So well said ChocolateOrchid. Don’t we keep referring to this country as the “Great Melting Pot”.
I don’t know if this is sixties or seventies, but I saw this dress today:
http://www.igigi.com/shop/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.displayalt¤tpage=1&fromcat=4&disptype=3&product_id=646
My expectations, as far as the inclusion of Black models at the shows, are zero. I’m not holding my breath. They’ll have the same tired cast of the select few Black models that are hitting right now (Chanel Iman (who I don’t know why they like, she’s hella-boring), that Dominican one in the photo you posted, Jourdan & perhaps a few others. I just know to focus on the clothes & if I’m pleasantly surprised, then so be it.
The model I’m loving right now is Hollis, she’s so hot. Simply gorgeous. I love her hair!
http://nymag.com/fashion/models/whollis/wakeemahollis/
On another note, did you notice that Estee Lauder dropped Liya Kibede as a spokesmodel? WTF?! That girl was beautiful, classy, everything they represent as a brand (I also know her personally, & she’s a sweetheart). And they went & got another White model to replace her (Hilary Rhoda, I think). That pissed me off. I used to admire Estee Lauder, cause they were using a Black model, but even though they do make good shades for my skin tone, I don’t plan on buying anymore of their products. Them not renewing her contract rubbed me the wrong way. That goes to show how hard it is for a Black model to keep on working in this business. Those cosmetics contracts are how a model can make the big real money. I mean, they’re still using Caroline Murphy, who’s been around forever, even still using Elizabeth Hurley’s old ass, but they couldn’t keep Liya?! C’mon…
I don’t have any expectations @ all. I’m in wait and see mode. Once again, we have fashion trying to “prove a point” rather than being about inclusion and reflecting the diverse faces, cultures and ethnicities that shape our world. We’ll see.
Well see at the end of Fashion Week how many Black models actually make it onto the catwalk. And if they aren’t there, what will be their excuse then?
Bella, I’m going to be devil’s advocate here. Now I’m all for diversity in modeling and love how more black models are being showcased, but fashion at the end of the day is about the clothes. Models are supposed to be canvases and too much diversity within one show can get a little distracting to a designer’s eye. They are showcasing their work and in doing so, they aren’t necessarily playing to the audience’s taste in models. They pick what works for their brand, theme, and how they design their clothing.
Side note: if there were more black designers desiging clothes for black women, I think we’d see more black models in shows. The vast majority of designers, as you all know, are European.
Instant/vintage you make an interesting point because I have seen runway shows where you couldn’t tell the models apart they looked exactly the same! I think they are a lot of up and coming black designers the problem is they don’t get the jobs at big and already established design houses. Some times the head of design houses are designing for 2-3 different lines, Tom Ford at Gucci and at Tom Ford, Marc Jacobs at Marc Jacobs, Marc by Marc Jacobs and Louis Vuitton, etc, Also entertainers don’t shout out Paul Robinson or Tracy Reese but we all know who the Louis Vuitton Don is…
Instant/Vintage, what do you mean? That a Black model , styled exactly the same way as the other models in regards to hair & makeup, would be less of a “canvas” & more of a distraction? That their being black would distract from the clothes?! Is that what you mean?
If so, that’s indicative of the brainwashing that has gone on in this society for WAY too long…people need to stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
We’re no more “exotic” than anyone else, it’s just that it seems that way, cause of the lack of diversity & the public’s being used to seeing the same ole White/Eurocentric standards of beauty paraded about time & again.
Designers’ bottom line is that they want people to buy the clothes, & trust me, they do pay attention to what we, the public, & ultimately, the consumers, want to see & how we perceive what they’re presenting. It impacts their business. A big part of fashion is perception, it’s very visual, so if more people start calling for diversity than what they’re currently seeing, the designers are gonna pay attention to that. That’s why it’s good that people are talking about this lack of diversity going on.
You gotta start somewhere.
I don’t think that industry buyers, fashion editors, customers, etc. find it that much more “distracting” if a Black model walks at a Prada show, it just needs to be more the norm than the exception. They’d adjust, like with anything else.
Like you said, at the end of the day, it’s about the clothes. Therefore, if I’m a buyer, or fashion editor or whatever, the clothes are gonna be my main focus, no matter who’s wearing them down the catwalk.
Bella, you could look into getting a dashshiki dress. That is very seventies and you would wear it after the party. HTH
Can I just say that I just lurve the idea of a Seventies karaoke wedding in Vegas? Congrats to your sister-in-law!
And yes, Mama Tia is glowing and beautiful! She looks great.
As for Fashion Week – I will be there covering it for 55 Secret Street and trust and believe I will give the full report on Black models and other models of color. I will also do my best to get a lot of black behind-the-scenes folks. You know I don’t play:)
Did Estee Lauder drop Liya or did her contract end?
This is where I just sigh. No industry will totally represent us until we bring something to the table as a people–otherwise, we are just begging. Until we have some bargaining chips we will continue to be ignored. By bargaining chips, I mean market share and influence–being consumers is not enough. We, as African Americans, have no major connections and are not in any situation to where we can return any favors that we request–we own or oversee no major magazines that carry weight in the fashion world, there are very few major designers of color and even if they are major designers, are they purchasing million dollar ads in magazines? Are they in a position to make demands? Do they have the clout to go against the status quo?
So, what are we bringing to the table to make such a demand that we should be included?
I new something was amiss when I did not see Liya Kebede in the new Estee Lauder ad. I turned backed the page twice just to make sure that the page was not stuck.
Sure at the end of the day it is all about the clothes, but as Americans we too are consumers and buy these clothes. So why can’t I see an advertisement of a women who either looks like me or shows the diversity of women that live in this country?
When fashion designers of color set out to design they don’t have one set of buyers in mind, only those mass designers whose clothes are for a certain demographic will market directly to them. Companies and advertising firms only care about one color, green, the color of money. Most high end designers market solely to the wealthy, but they seem to forget that the wealthy does not only consist of the WASP female.
There are several fashions designers who happen to be Black and they are:
Jeffrey Banks, Stephen Burrows, Roger Gary, Shaka King, B. Michael, Duro Olowu, Douglas Says, Anita Watkins of Sixxfoota, Tracy Reese, Edward Wilkerson of Lafayette 148 New York, Patrick Robinson, Kevan Hall, Anthony Liggins, Byron Lars, Toni Whitaker, Therez Fleetwood, James Lee McFarland, Tina Knowles, Anthony Mark Hankins, Harold Clarke, Etu Evans, Mychael Knight, Everett Hall, Monif C. and Kai Milla.
I’m sure that there are countless others who are based in Europe and Africa and even those of lesser known names in the USA who work behind the ‘seams’ designing for the fashion houses who mass produce many of today’s garments. So when a designer presents their newest collection they are designing for all who can buy or admire their clothing not just me or any other ethnicity. With all due repspect, to me a designer is the one who draws the concept of clothing or drapes the design, not one who puts his name to a article of clothing, i.e., Sean John, Phat Pharm and KLS.
Black Style, Today and Forever!
Black Is Not Only Beautiful_ It’s Profitable Too!
Bella, go on eBay & look. It’s my favorite. For real, I’m a eBay fanatic. Got the LAMB Darrel pumps (the yellow blk & green platforms)on there last yr, for like $100, when they were still $375 at the store!
And my clothes, I wear a lotta vintage, & it’s my go-to. Just make sure the seller has a good record…here are some ideas, I’m not quite sure what you’re looking for, i.e. sleeveless, not sleeveless, tunic-style, etc…
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-SHAHEEN-Hand-Painted-BoHo-Maxi-Dress-Peacocks_W0QQitemZ200247726055QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item200247726055&_trkparms=72%3A635%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-VINTAGE-DRESS-60S-BRIGHT-COLOR-SEARS-ROEBUCK-CO_W0QQitemZ220274367389QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220274367389&_trkparms=72%3A635%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-60s-Woodstock-Batik-Caftan-Dress-S-M-L-XL-OS_W0QQitemZ280256746884QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280256746884&_trkparms=72%3A635%7C39%3A1%7C66%3A4%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1318&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
Let me add that Genevieve Jones has a fantabulous line of accessories. Give it time and she too will be leaving her mark on American Fashion.
Check her out @http://genevieve-jones.com/
Oh, Genevieve’s accessories are amazing! I really like her handbags! Thanks for the link YM Williams!
“With all due repspect, to me a designer is the one who draws the concept of clothing or drapes the design, not one who puts his name to a article of clothing, i.e., Sean John, Phat Pharm and KLS.”
———————————————————
I could not agree more.
I bet by “ethnically ambiguous” they mean more pale skin Latinas and Naima Mora. Its even more sickening to see how they won’t put many black models in shows, yet so many of our “pale skin counterparts” will be the first ones to talk about the black supermodels (Naomi, Liya, Alek, Tyra, Iman) as if they’re the only black models that exist in the world, and they are the only ones worthy of gracing the catwalk as well as magazines.
…these also are the same people who become tanorexic in the summer, in hopes to achieve the golden brown look. Its like how can you adore brown skin so much that you want it, yet you don’t want anybody who is naturally brown surrounding you?
(if that made any sense at all…)
Hey Edesse & YM, I believe that Estee Lauder chose not to renew her contract. It was originally for 3 yrs. & she made about $3 million for it.
I had noticed that I hadn’t seen her in the ads in a while, & a few months ago, was reading an interview w/ Bethann Hardison & she brought it up. It was related to the Vogue Italia’s all Black issue coming out.
That Genevieve Jones logo alone is hot to def! Love her stuff.
I’m mighty tired of the lack of diversity. As many have said before me, why the need for ambiguity? Pale skin is beautiful in its own right. So is chocolate. And mocha. If nothing else, I believe what’s really in style right now is the “naturally beautiful” look, the one that looks like it takes no effort. That look comes in all shades. I’m just as happy to see a white woman embrace the fact that she’s pale (as long as she’s healthy) as I am a chocolate woman who radiates her God-given beauty. (She’s got to be healthy too, of course!) In fact, it would seem a truly wise designer would have a line-up of all hues to tell the world “Look, my stuff is so beautiful is looks great on people around the world.” Designers pidgen-hole their own work when they limit the people who display it. The Hope Diamond doesn’t shine less brightly according to the color cloth the museum displays beneath it. Something created just for one type of person is, IMO, a stupid waste of resources if you make your living being creative.
Of course, there’s the awful, hateful social side to this discrimination too, but many of you already said all that.
I think the whole “ethnically ambiguous” thing would sit better with me if diversity (representing who this country is made of) were already the norm. To make the ambiguous the new “it” thing doesn’t really change much of anything.
In other news, I saw these and got a laugh…http://www.flopyourvote.com/obamaflop.html.
Variety is the spice of life. Its a pity the fashion world does not know that!!!!
@ flygirl
“Instant/Vintage, what do you mean? That a Black model , styled exactly the same way as the other models in regards to hair & makeup, would be less of a “canvas†& more of a distraction? That their being black would distract from the clothes?! Is that what you mean?”
Yes and no. It depends on the designer and the look s/he wants for the show. Sometimes they want their models to look exactly the same. Sometimes not.
As I said before, I’m all for diversity in models and a worldwide standard of beauty, but from a designer’s standpoint, diversity of models in show is not always on the menu. I don’t necessarily agree with it, but that’s how it is.
If you were a painter, you would think you could have free range in the type of frame to put your picture in. The same principle applies.
Why do we continue to look to the fashion industry to represent us when the industry is built on generating illusions for profit? When people from the industry throw their hands up and say, “Well having diversity would be nice, but sorry, it just can’t be this way.” Since when do they not have control over who they cast in their shows? Fashion’s complacency, excuses, apologies and superficial attempts to show diversity are disgusting.
I’d rather put my energy into promoting, discovering and creating my own ideas of beauty, and representing what I find beautiful in myself. I learned what was beautiful from the folks who raised me, not from magazines and TV. I try to help my students identify and verbalize their own ideas about beauty and see how the media has distorted those ideas.
If the fashion industry truly wanted to represent all kinds of beauty, it would no longer be an industry. It would be unnecessary. We spend so much money trying to attain a certain beauty and so much time being fearful that we may not be able to.
I will not pat designers on the back for showcasing models who range in complexion. I will not look at it as a step in the right direction when they turn a complexion or hair texture or bone structure into a trend. I will not praise an industry that still conforms to a certain body type. And I will not applaud them when they do these things for profit.
I love me some clothes, but I’ll be damned if I ever expected a designer to truly represent people that look like me and my friends.
We/I don’t need designers to show us what we already know. Why are we waiting for them? Why are we paying them so much money and time?
Eastern Parkway in Brooklyn in the summertime is as visually stimulating and ethnically diverse as it gets. I sit on a bench and watch well-dressed folks pass – for free – and thank mother nature for continuing to broaden my idea of who is beautiful.
bello says thanks for the tight observation. the quote proves that these folks are businesspeople without inclination to change the faces on the basis of any sort of egalitarianism …despite the fact that, I believe, if they were to test the waters by mixing it up, it would also be good for business. as a bro-man, I miss seeing black faces – you won’t see them randomly in fashion or media, but rather as stylized and typecast figures. nevertheless, Bianca, as a bk resident, I do dig that Eastern Parkway stroll any time. peace.
Hey Bianca:
That was so well said!
Bianca,
Bravo b/c you said the honest truth.
There is one thing about the fashion/entertainment industry that should be remembered. In places where black/brown folks aren’t a large part of the population and in places where almost all of us are on the “bottom rung”, these industries provide a window where the world (of all colors) can see an alternative to the stereotype. Sure, Brooklyn is a great place to see diversity and the beauty of God’s creation. But there are places where people fail to realize a beautiful person of color is the norm and not the exception. Love it or leave it, the way the fashion/entertainment world portrays us sets the tone for how we are treated by people who don’t encounter us every day. As a young girl, I looked up to the well-dressed ladies in my family and learned how to emulate them. But when I saw other women in Essence (back in the day before they went a little stale) and watched shows like “A Different World”, I realized there were women like my family ALL OVER THE WORLD. That gave me hope for myself and showed me I could dream beyond my little hometown.
If the world only sees us as video vixens and the scullery maid, they treat us like that when we travel the world and do business with the world. When the world realizes we are PEOPLE who come in a full range of types and not just a narrow stereotype, maybe they will treat us more as people and less like an other. As of now, we have to keep proving ourselves even more than necessary where ever we go.
Will the industry solve all that? No, but it makes a difference in the long run. So, yes, we should get our primary view of beauty from positive role models around us and from nature. But we cannot neglect the role fashion and entertainment plays in the world’s view of us.
Just like fashion, any line of business/industry should be open to diversity. Regardless of just looking at the clothes spectators are really looking at the models, the spectators must have an open mind set since they are attending all these different fashion shows… so why not have an open mind when considering black/multiracial models. There must be an equal level of playing field for everyone, holding someone back due to skin color is old, stooopid and foolish and must stop.
I’m tired of the lack of diversity, but I’m not surprised. I love fashion, LOVE it, but I don’t gain inspiration from the models, nor many designers. I know that they can’t just cater to black people to appease us, that’s what I kind of think they did with Italian Vogue. We’ve been seeing “ethnically ambiguous,” models for years and they say this to not to say models of color. I’d like to see true diversity, this means more models of color period. And to answer some questions about the lack of black designers, there are plenty Byron Lars, Tracy Reese, Lafayette 148, Patrick Robinson, who is executive VP of fashion for Gap, and Epperson are some of the more known. But you have many under the radar, like Miss Bruno, you just have to seek them out. I go off the beaten path for this, and love the purse designer Jacob’s Eye who sells purses on etsy.com. You won’t see most of them in the tents during fashion week, because one it’s very expensive and two it’s a political hierachy of who gets to show in the tents. These designers, those who are based in New York, also have much smaller showings in their studios or other off tent sites.
ethnic ambiguous does nothing but totally erase black faces completely. Look at the music industry. Is lacefront Beyonce, Alicia Keys and Cassie the face of black women?
I am the African American mother of three mixed race children whose hair ranges from beautifully, crazily,kinky and blonde to dark silky ringlets. Their skin tones range from peaches and cream to deep golden brown. Does that make them racially ambiguous? If they are successful in this world will their own Black people reduce my hard work raising them to good fortune based on thier racial ambiguity? I believe this is a hateful and defeatist mindset. My children are BLACK and trust me, when it really comes down to it, the WHITE world still will ultimately views and treats them that way. The successes of a handful of models and singers does not negate that. Bella, your readers encompass Natural hair and beauty loving sisters from all walks of life and with diverse life stories. I love your blog, but this post just leaves me cold.
“Racially ambiguous” is just a coded way of saying “Doesn’t look black”. Same ole same ole from the fashion industry. Someone needs to crack these morons on the head till they get that black is beautiful in and of itself. Heck, does Michelle Obama look racially ambiguous? Thank goodness my mom used to take me to the Ebony Fashion Fair every time it came through town. It was my only chance growing up to see so many black models wearing high fashion stuff. Too bad that hasn’t change in all these years.
Melaniecheryl: Unless I’m reading incorrectly, we’re not talking about culturally ambiguous. We’re talking about physically, optically ambiguous. If your kids appear as though they’re not a single race, then people WILL treat them differently…at least, that’s what the fashion world seems to want to do.
I find it fascinating that after all these years people still have a problem distinguishing between “physically black” and “culturally black.” I know black people who are “racially ambiguous” and will swear up and down they’re not mixed when it’s OBVIOUS that they are. Why being mixed is a bad thing — I mean, you can’t help who your great-grandfather was — I still don’t know. I don’t have a problem with today’s more immediately mixed people claiming all their heritage — it’s their right — but I do have a problem with anybody, regardless of race or heritage, perpetuating a white supremacist attitude by going along with the notion that “racially ambiguous” is somehow better than the alternative.
To that end, I completely agree that this desire for ambiguity is more about minimizing black features than it is about minimizing anybody else’s features. And I agree that appreciating diversity in ALL forms (including my dark-skinned, racially unambiguous form) is what needs to happen.
As an equal opportunity advisor as my career choice (and a pure Trini, afro-wearing diva 🙂 I have to say I am not surprised by the industry’s “grey area” comment. It is my opinion that we are once again experiencing the attitude of “white privilege.” I am not laying fault or blame on any person(s) because it is the entire industry that accepts and encourages these comments to be socially acceptable. On the other hand, what are the consumers, viewers, bloggers, individuals, “diverse” society going to do about it? Globally diverse cultures are the majority and spend the most money. Yet, are represented less on the same products that they purchase. Question, now that we know, now what?
Instant/Vintage – We’re talking about people, not picture frames. And if I’m spending my money on your painting, then yeah, I might have something to say about your choice of frame. I’m the one whose money you want.
No one’s saying that everytime & in every show it has to be the Rainbow Coalition, but there is an alarming lack of diversity among the models out there compared to how varied it was in the seventies/eighties. It’s racial discrimination. I’ve read interviews with model bookers saying that these companies flat out tell them not to send any Black models cause they’re not going to use them in the shows this season. That’s inexcusable. If you choose to shrug & accept it, fine, but don’t try to justify what they’ve been doing. This goes beyond artistic points of view. It’s been an increasing problem. The designers, of course are artistic & deserve creative license, but need to be accountable if they’re consistently practicing a habit of exclusion.
Edesse brings up a great point about what we have to bring to the table, & I agree that there are still far too few of us that have major clout on the end of the decision-making spectrum. But I’d like to remind you Edesse, that we count for billions of dollars spent each year. We do have a LOT of buying clout & can throw some of our weight around if we chose to do it & organize. We DO bring something to the table. Check it out…
http://www.mediapost.com/publications/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.san&s=76412&Nid=39298&p=929348
b. – Well said. I couldn’t agree more. Ditto for Los Angelista & Olivia.
I SO agree w/Bianca. Why do we look to the fashion industry to represent diversity and ‘stay true’ the rainbow of browns and beiges that are their consumers when they make clothes for women shaped like pre-pubescent boys??? That’s like asking someone to ‘at least’ call you Ma’am as they cuss you out. The original sin of disrespect is in the fact that the industry is telling us (women) that we’re not even fit to wear the clothes designed for us; damn the whole racial issue. That’s an afterthought to the ignorance as far as I’m concerned.
Bianca, your comment is inspiring, and that will definitely lead me to another post — finding real life fashion and beauty inspiration all around us instead of looking to a publication for validation. Love it.
melaniecheryl, I am from a family exactly as the one you describe. Myself, my sister, my brothers are all of varied complexions and hair types. It’s more than commonplace where I am from to see families with skin shades that run the gamut from chocolate brown to honey beige and back again. The point of this post is that by defining the models of choice as “tomboyish” and “ethnically ambiguous,” it’s a way to only feature models of a certain skin tone and hair type, thereby excluding models of a darker hue or kinkier texture.
My whole point is that they can and should feature models like your children who you so beautifully describe, but why should they not feature them alongside models whose ethnicity isn’t ambiguous but is instantly apparent? Why not feature models all shades of beautiful, to prove that these clothes look good on everyone? Why make race or skin color a trend to be discarded within a single season? I am sorry that this post leaves you cold, but I am thinking you didn’t get my point.
You guys have to keep in mind who actually runs the fashion industry. WHITE women and those who are trying to make insecure WHITE women feel good about themselves.
Its not about the industry trying to look down, snub or make others feel any less, its those who are running the industry trying to to make white women feel good about themselves and to continue to target their wallets.
I think they are making strides to include the more curvy women in fashion. Why else have some of the regular store like Express or the Gap started to make designs for “Curvy” women. I can now fit jeans and clothes I was unable to fit before. I am also inspired that there is a Vouge Italia. This shows that we are recognized as a viable force and consumer power. Progress is slow but continuing.
Bella – I am live in Vegas..if you have Vegas questions or thoughts hit me up!
Hope or expect?
I hope to see new or underemployed Black and Asian models on every catwalk. I expect to see Chanel, Jourdan, Sessilee and maybe Arlenis, Alek and Liya.
To me, the above models aren’t really ethnically ambiguous but multiracial. Nicole from the Pussy Cat Dolls is ethnically ambiguous.
You can’t imagine how much time ive been googling because of this. Through 6 pages of Digg results with out discovering anything at all. One particular search on Msn. There this is… Gotta begin to use this more often