When I had the opportunity to talk with Doe Deere, also known as Xenia, the creator of controversial cosmetics brand Lime Crime, I was both excited and hesitant.
Excited because her makeup brand has a lot of buzz around it right now — Lime Crime is featured in the November issue of Nylon magazine, and I’ve heard many a beauty blogger rave over the range of crazy colors available in their Magic Dust eyeshadows and Candyfuture Lipsticks.
Hesitant because I’ve also noticed many a beauty blogger talking umbrage with Doe Deere herself, and disparaging Lime Crime as a brand.
You can read some of those posts:
here at the Examiner (those comments are off the chain)
here at Jessica Allison’s blog
here at Lipstick and Lightsabers (WHAT a great blog name!)
and…you get the picture.
But for every hater, there’s a congratulator. There’s an army of Lime Crime and Doe Deere fans out there — say hello to Team Candyfuture! And besides the people who admire Doe’s appearance and personality, there are those who really are intrigued by the makeup itself, all chatter aside. I fall into the latter camp.
I heard of Lime Crime before all of the brou-ha-ha began, and the reason I heard about them was because people were raving over this hot new makeup brand, all packaged in pink with sparkly unicorns, dedicated to super intense pigments and bright colors. And I realize there’s a reason just about every post about Doe Deere online generates hundreds of bickering comments — she’s a fascinating figure. And the creator of a makeup brand that targets a very passionate audience.
When we started our interview, I offered Doe two options. We can start out fun and lighthearted and talk about the makeup itself…or we can wade immediately into the controversy and address it right off the bat. Doe chose the latter.
“From what I’ve seen so far, I’m getting positive responses. I’m getting overwhelming support. And it’s just a handful of people who are all linking to each other, First it was one blog, then there were a few more, but they’re all regurgitating the same stuff,” she declared. Doe is soft spoken, she’s got a charming Russian accent, she’s polite and quite sweet to converse with. But make no mistake, homegirl is about her business, and she has worked hard to build her brand.
I broached the topic of the offensive online comments that had been circulating, supposedly written by Doe herself. One that only an extremely foolish businesswoman would write. She denied writing that outright, and in no uncertain terms.
“Certainly not. I would at least know my own company’s name and how to spell it. It’s Lime Crime. Two words,” she retorted, much to my relief.
Doe carefully applying lashes on her model, Atim
That’s one of the major things that’s been bugging me about the complaints against Lime Crime — e mails and online comments supposedly left by Doe seemed so misguided, and out of character for someone who presents themselves as being dedicated to their business. A business owner leaving public messages in which they refer to their customers as idiots = business suicide in this online age. It didn’t make sense to me, and Doe was quick to refute it.
“The only reliable source of information is my blog and my Twitter. I do not comment on other blogs. So any comments that are being passed around aren’t from me.”
“I built my brand on the internet, and I of all people would recognize the power of the internet. I am an internet phenomenon. So I knew I had to address this directly, online,” she explained, in reference to the YouTube video she recently released, in which she speaks out against the critics.
To counteract the accusations that Lime Crime was merely repackaging makeup made by wholesale companies, Doe released a YouTube video in which she makes eyeshadow and a post on her blogazine titled So How Do You Make Lipstick? — and that’s where she draws the line.
“I think they have set an unreasonable standard. Of course I am not going to tell you who is my manufacturer, what are my formulas. Not alot of companies would be as open as I have been. But from now on, I will document every single thing I make.”
Lest you think making makeup is a glamorous task, Doe assures me — “It can be quite laborious and tedious.”
The whole Lime Crime controversy and interview made me realize — WOW this is a world I am completely unfamiliar with. Also, I really don’t think enough about makeup. Or what goes into it. For the most part (with obvious exceptions like Valana Minerals and B.L.A.C, brands I’ve blogged about before), I tend to wear mainstream brands that are available in the drugstore or department store. And it has never occurred to me to try to find out — hey, can I find a replica for Bobbi Brown or MAC or NARS or Kat Von D’s makeup or Lauren Luke’s makeup from a cosmetics pigment wholesaler and make it myself, at home? But there are ardent makeup fans who are doing just that — swatching, comparing and experimenting, blogging about their experience and repping niche makeup brands that truly provide something for everyone. That is awesome. The internet, it is vast and amazing. And I learn something new from it every day.
I knew there was much more I could ask Doe about the online witch hunt going on against her, I could have asked her more about the ongoing Mineral Makeup Mutiny and her thoughts on what else she could do to appease her critics…but I honestly don’t know enough about this online world and the manufacturing of cosmetics to ask more pointed questions. She was certainly willing to answer them, and I appreciated that. But I was ready to talk about this makeup!
Lime Crime is not for the timid. It’s for the young and the young at heart, girly girls who love pink and unicorns and bright colors, who may cite Rainbow Bright or Punky Brewster as style influences. As Doe describes it, it’s “statement makeup.”
I was lucky enough to review two Lime Crime lipsticks, so allow me to break down my results for you.
The packaging is SUPER cute and in the tube the colors are vibrant. On my lips, My Beautiful Rocket was way more subdued than I hoped.
Apparently I need a deeper orange to really make an impact on my skin tone. Also I tend to have dry lips that are prone to peeling…this particular lip color called attention to my peeling lips RIGHT AWAY. I had to rub it off, scrub my lips (a little MAC Volcanic Ash Scrub worked marvelously), then reapply. And the claim that the lipsticks go from tube to lips in one stroke…that didn’t happen for me with My Beautiful Rocket. I had to really layer it on, for it to be even and opaque on my lips.
I think this color would work best for those with lighter complexions, or darker complexions. On a darker skin tone this color would pop! On me it just kind of looked peachy and regular.
But Centrifuchsia, that was a whole different story! Here I am, trying to give you fierce.
Did that work? I was trying to “smile with my eyes”!
I really like this color. I went into it expecting an uber bright obnoxious fuchsia, but instead it turned out to be really wearable and the kind of lippie that would add fun impact to my winter wardrobe. And it lived up to the claim, and totally covered my lips with high impact color with one stroke. REALLY high impact color. In fact, I washed my face, went to bed, and woke up the next day to find my lips were still really, really pink. This worked almost like a lip stain, for me. So if you’re looking for a hot pink lippie that lasts, this could be it.
Lime Crime lipsticks are smooth, not drying (but I always slick on a little regular balm first, because of my dry lips), and the packaging is youthful, fun, super cute. They cost $16 a tube.
What’s next for Lime Crime? Lots.
“We are coming out with an expansion line of our lipsticks. There are going to be a lot of surprises — colors that are wearable, but still unusual. I mean, it’s Lime Crime!” says Doe.
Now that she’s been fashion forward and released the wildest colors in the wheel, is Lime Crime going back to make the kind of colors that are considered more traditionally wearable?
“It’s not going back, it’s going forward! But before it was about being as bright as possible. Now it’s about sheen, or how about a duo tone. Now it’s not as loud. It’ll be a more well rounded collection.”
And there you have it. The stunning model of color you see in photos above is Atim Birungi – I love her hair, I love her lips, I love her style! Gorgeous! And if you click on the Lime Crime site, you can see her lips modeling different lipstick shades, to give you an idea of the color impact on women of varied ethnicities.
Now that you know the Lime Crime story from Doe’s perspective, what do you think? Would this be a brand you support? Or do you agree with the dissidents? I would love to hear your views either way — and Doe’s reading, too! If you’re new to Afrobella — hello and welcome! I do monitor my comments closely for profanity and offensive content. But if you’ve got some respectful and constructive advice for Doe, or her makeup brand in general, please feel free to leave a comment!
Just like you, I don’t know enough. I don’t buy make-up off the internet unless it’s from Sephora so I’ll probably not be buying her things. I must say from all my youtube people that I’m subscribed to, I’ve never actually heard anything good about lime crime. I have heard they are the same as other brands, so I don’t know what to tell her.
I wish you did know enough to ask her the ‘real’ questions’.
I have proof in my email box she called me names when I asked a simple question.
Look around, there are a TON of comments from her on other blogs, usually thanking them for posting dribble about them, but her claiming otherwise, is again, a LIE.
There is PROOF she just sells repackaged mica as her ‘amazingly formulated’ product. Anyone with any insight into mineral makeup KNOWS there IS no formulating to straight mica. It’s just straight mica and she’s been lying about her lab and her formula.
Again, I can prove at least a dozen of her colors are EXACT matches from product I got directly from the wholesaler.
She’s got a long history of being a scam artist and her claims with her lipstick are starting to prove that again.
Hey Dee — I’ve seen both positive and negative reviews on YouTube about the brand… I guess it can be called a polarizing brand. People either seem to love it or loathe it, because of the backstory.
Jessica, TRUST me I do too! Writing this post and doing research on why people are mad really made me realize how ignorant I am about mineral makeup. I have no insight into what is used in these formulations, so I didn’t feel right asking more complicated how-did-you-make-this-product questions. BUT please let the record show that Doe was friendly to me and willing to answer whatever I asked. So having said that — what would you like me to have asked her? What should I have said that I didn’t say?
Also, here’s a super ignorant question and you can feel free to let me know that I need to educate myself more about makeup if you want to… but here goes. Is Lime Crime the only brand of mineral makeup that reportedly sells repackaged mica? I am trying to understand why and how Doe has become the public face of this outcry. If she’s the only one doing this, then I guess it makes sense. I dunno. But I want to know your opinion!
I’m really tryin to get into the makeup game myself and I have never heard of Lime Crime either. But I’m glad I read this and it will definitely pushed me to learn further!
btw: i’m digging the second lipstick color on you! 🙂
She’s not the only one doing it. But that’s not the major issue.
The issue is the has LIED about it from the start. She claims she custom formulated this amazing formula and then went on and on about how she designed the colors herself. Which is a LIE, since it’s just MICA, nothing is needed to formulate MICA, she doesn’t turn it into a shadow, she uses it as is. And as is it’s technically only an INGREDIENT in mineral makeup. And she invented colors a wholesaler has been selling for over ten years. She continues to lie about this, in her recent Nylon ‘blurb’ she claims she fought to have fillers and blah blah blah removed from her custom eyeshadow line. IT COMES LIKE THAT STRAIGHT FROM HER SUPPLIER.
Lots of people repackage, only she lies about it time and time again and when CONFRONTED with the fact she’s been caught, she calls the people she ripped off (as in her former fans and die hard supporters) HATERS when we just want a straight answer from her.
As it is, mica is a goo eyeshadow. So ANYONE can repackage colors and have the same exact good product she sells.
I would have loved to have heard her explanation as to why all HER custom colors match one wholesalers inventory. I would have loved to know why she’s been so evasive as to who is actually making her lipsticks. She claims she’s been ‘transparent’ about how it’s done, and yet actual makeup professionals and chemists have debunked her posts. I would have loved to hear why she sends out nasty emails (I know at least a dozen people who’ve gotten one that she seems to have cut and paste) instead of just giving a straight answer. She might have kept some of her self respect, but most of the fans she’s ripped off just think of her as a fraud.
This was a brand that I DID support- I bought a few of their eye shadows (Circus Girl, Shoe Addict, Lime Criminal, Empress, Elf, Pink Poodle and Duchess) and it cost me a pretty penny. I was happy with them though, until I found out about TKB. Doing an order from them, I found out that my Lime Crime was exactly the same thing as the wholesale, just for 400% the price. It was too late for me to return my Lime Crime, so I couldn’t do a thing about it.
I wouldn’t be as angry if Lime Crime hadn’t claimed to create their eyeshadows, but that was their story when the company launched, and I bought into that, wanting to give my money to someone who had worked so hard. Now that I have proof on my makeup table of this being a lie, I’m left feeling really cheated and ripped off. I don’t know about her lipsticks, but I am REALLY hesitant to give my money to that company again after wasting so much on her eyeshadows. Money is an issue for me, and anything non-essential I buy is a major financial decisison. In the future, when I do it, I want to know that what I read can be believed.
Overall your article is good, and I’m glad you don’t diss anyone who has had a bad experience with this company… Although please don’t use the term “witchhunt” to decribe the upset customers who have spread the word. Yes, some people are going too far, but I am not part of a witchhunt and am just saddened about the way she is dealing with this whole thing.
Im glad that we have this interview to set things straight. I hate how Lime Crime is on a witch hunt when you have companies like Scandalous, B*tch Slapped and Medusa’s Makeup that all uses the same Ladybug wholesaler but advertise as their own. But my guess is since they are doing it then Lime Crime must be too. I personally have bought some of lime crimes and the people they have compared it to. I dont see the comparisons.
Now for Jessica, mostly every mineral makeup company uses some form of Mica, now the process of how she made her colors could be different on how others made theirs who are we to criticize?
nikkideevah –
She didn’t ‘make’ a color. She showed how to duplicate an existing color, DIRECTLY FROM A VIDEO ON THE WHOLESALERS SITE.
All she did was mimic (and poorly so) what they did on the wholesalers video. She didn’t even know the ‘formula’ of her own color. A color which, by the way, doesn’t NEED to be blended since it’s sold EXACTLY like that from the wholesaler anyway.
Like I keep saying, anyone with any knowledge of mineral makeup can see through her lies.
Educate yourself and don’t allow her to keep fooling you!!!
Hey, nikkideeeah, what micas did you compare? I’m just curious, because I could find an identical twin for all of my Lime Crime shadows on TKB, including the signiture shadow, Lime Criminal.
Oh sorry, I meant to type nikkideevah, sorry for messing up on spelling your name!
Thank you for encouraging a healthy discussion from your readers instead of disabling comments like a certain someone. =)
The main issue is this. Doe’s makeup line launched with a fantastic backstory about how she spent years trying to find makeup bright enough to suit her tastes but that the search left her emptyhanded. So she decided to work with a factory to create the brightest, wildest colors, the likes of which have never been seen before. This sounds quite exciting, right?
Everyone bought into the story and threw money at her to try these amazing pigments that she promised were so unique and like nothing we had ever used before.
Imagine our disappointment when we got our packages and realized they were the EXACT same product available from a very popular wholesaler at a 700% markup. Do you see why this would be upsetting, especially after we were led to believe that she had created something new and revolutionary that the cosmetic world had never before seen? All she did was buy a preexisting product and resell it. It was deliberate false advertising.
A lot of naysayers will say that many makeup companies have similar or overlapping colors, and that is true. But the problem with Lime Crime is that EVERY SINGLE COLOR she carries can be directly matched to colors from that one particular wholesaler. The ingredients, formula, and color are IDENTICAL to a T, with not even the slightest variation. The wholesaler sells these pigments to people who want to mix and create their own colors. So if Lime Crime had at least mixed some together to create some unique new shades, I don’t think people would be as mad. But instead she sells the pigments exactly as she got them from the wholesaler. Oh, and then she explained the similarities by saying the wholesaler COPIED HER, even though they have been selling those colors for over 10 years!
You don’t really need to have any knowledge of the mineral makeup scene to understand the main point why people are mad that they were lied to. Even if it is a coincidence (unlikely) that all her colors match the wholesaler’s exactly, then her claim to have created the brightest, never-before-seen cosmetics is still false because all of these colors have been available from the wholesaler for over 10 years.
hmm, it kind of just sounds like same old bad business ethics. But I don’t know, it’s a brand new company, I never expected much. Not to mention, could she really have written ‘average product, repackaged…can get cheaper elsewhere’? on her product description? I was definitely expecting SOME false advertising, but I would agree it went a bit too far. Nonetheless, lots of people ARE doing the same and far worse, and I think xenia looks like a scapegoat in all this. I think the discussion should be on ALL those that lie about their average products, not just her (she has owned up in a way – that video of her ‘making’ the product is proof – she just doesn’t want to give a definite ‘yes’, and i dont blame her, companies rarely do this) – it would be so much more helpful. It just seems wrong concentrating on one person so much – i’m sure someone gave her guidance to run her company this way as well. So, yea, lets broaden the argument to more companies, not just limecrime, that way it is a worth while topic, concentrating on her is less so – especially as everyone knows the story now – they can absolutely make their own minds up. On NY examiner, for example, people are just looking for anything to attack her with, which is just plain unfair.
Having said all this, I am SO impressed with ‘airbourne unicorn” and recommend it highly. I suspect her products will only get better now, which is surely one goal achieved for the ‘mineral make-up mutiny’ people? of course they should still get their refunds – but think about that
the thing is, it’s not a witch hunt! Any legitimate company will offer returns, Lime Crime DOES NOT, under any circumstance. Alot of this has come together out of coincidence, where makeup lovers have stumbled over the fact that thier new Lime Crime Shadows are EXACTLY the same as those they have purchased from the wholesaler. Though Xenia refuses returns, or completely ignores emails on the matter, consumers are and have been returning thier purchases through a paypal dispute. One customer got close to $200 back!
I’d like to add that the only reason Lime Crime has been singled out is because of how poorly she handled this situation. Beauty from the Earth and Glamor Doll Eyes were called out as repackagers around the same time that Lime Crime was. However, BFTE and GDE both admitted it and said yes, we did sell repackaged pigments to start our companies with, but have since developed over 100 of our own unique shades and are discontinuing the stock colors. Lime Crime could have responded the same way and kept some of her dignity and customers’ respect, but instead she responded by saying that the wholesaler copied her colors! Repackaging doesn’t make you a bad person, but she keeps covering up her lies with more lies, which is why this issue won’t just go to rest. No one heckles BFTE or GDE anymore because they told the truth and moved on.
I suggest if you want to learn about all of her shady history to go here:http://www.examiner.com/x-17390-Brooklyn-Beauty-Examiner~y2009m10d6-Is-it-a-Crime-to-Look-this-Good-Lime-Crime-Makeup
People, myself included, who have been following her for many years and revealing all of her scandals that have unfolded. And there are MANY shady things that she has done in the past.
Katie got it dead in the black. It’s not just that she repackaged/resold. It’s not just that she has a near-usurious markup. It’s those factors, plus the lack of integrity when confronted.
Other companies have, and do, repackage product from makeup wholesalers. If Doe Deere had replied that yes, some of her products were resold – or were distributed by her, but made by another company – and stated that she was learning to create her own items and was gradually going to start adding those original products to the company’s lineup, people would have been peeved – but they wouldn’t have been vituperative. Had Doe Deere shown a bit of integrity, people may have asked, “Then why are things priced so high?” and she may have lost some customers in the short term – but the negative press would not have exploded the way it has.
She’s made some interesting tutorial/vids for makeup application. She seems to have a fan following, folks who love the Candyfuture concept. Okay, great, run with it! There’s certainly people who appreciate it. But provide your customers with a quality product that’s worth what they’re paying for it, and don’t lie or even “shade the truth” about where your products come from. If you’re providing what you consider to be quality products at a fair price, there is no reason to try and conceal where you purchase things from…unless those exact things can be bought from somewhere else for less money.
If you’re looking for proof that she’s disingenuous, her “how I make eyeshadow” video on youtube says it all:
1) The unhygienic manner in which she’s handling the micas.
2) The dirty looking plastic spoon she’s using.
3) The lack of formula following. She just looks like she’s throwing random colors together and hoping for the best.
4) Using black powder to darken the shadow.
5) The uncanny similarities to a video TKB posted months earlier on youtube (except they wore gloves!)
6) The claim that she then sends the color match off to a chemist where they can reproduce the colors for her over and over again… without a formula.
Aromaleigh posted a video on youtube that looks like a much more valid and accurate way to make loose eyeshadows/shoots down a lot of Doe’s claims in her eyeshadow video. I suggest looking at that. The rest of what I wanted to say, I feel is said better in the other comments here 🙂
Doe’s eyeshadow video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nccNupgAHtw
TKB’s eyeshadow video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nNgVxJ3BW8
Aromaleigh’s eyeshadow video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nccNupgAHtw
Jade – thanks, I actually link to that post up at the top of this one – the comments are intense!
Katie – you answered my question! Finally! Thank you SO much. This whole time I’ve been wondering — why is Doe the main focus when I am sure several other brands have done the same thing? Why is nobody as mad at any other brand?
I still want to err on the side of caution when it comes to out and out declaring that someone has done anything wrong, especially if there’s no empirical evidence. Without that, it remains a she-said, she-said case, am I right? Or am I wrong? I know there are photos where colors have been swatched side by side, I know there are makeup experts who have looked at her lab photos and called shenanigans… but I spoke to Doe and she spoke so convincingly and clearly about making her product, I still want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Until someone is able to produce vast receipts of transactions between Lime Crime and a wholesaler, or there’s surveillance video of her repackaging materials that aren’t her own, I still would rather say “it is believed by many that she may have done” x,y,z instead of saying “it’s obvious and we all know.”
So let’s say for the sake of argument, Doe Deere says you know what you guys, I may have exaggerated when first marketing my product and for that I apologize from the bottom of my heart. What then? Would that change anyone’s mind? Sad to say, but I doubt it…just from what I’ve been reading.
I hate to use the term witch hunt and I apologize for anyone who was offended by that (thesaurus FAIL), but some of the comments I’ve seen regarding Lime Crime and Doe herself on some blogs seem so mean spirited and so personal. So that’s why I wanted to speak to her directly to get her response on the parts of this controversy I did understand.
You know what else — I’d LOVE to hear from someone at TKB regarding this. Do they agree with the accusations? Do they think their video was copied? So many questions!
Thank you all for commenting and being respectful in your criticism – I don’t plan to ever disable comments and I’ve VERY rarely deleted comments — only if they contain profanity, or are racist in nature, or go after members of my family (which actually happened recently, go figure).
TKB has been contacted. They cannot confirm she purchases through them due to ‘privacy issues’. But if she didn’t, wouldn’t it be easy to just say, “No, she doesn’t?”
Now they refuse to comment to new inquires.
patrice thanks so much for this! i love how you approached it, taking us along with you in the process. i was caught in the hesitant feelings and didn’t report on her line :T
If you look at her lipsticks, it says distributed by Lime Crime, not made by Lime Crime.
She’s been dishonest with how she makes eye shadow, as well as lipsticks. As other commenters have mentioned, people who _really_ make eye shadow and lipsticks have pointed out the flaws in her posts.
Blog owner of Lipsticks & Lightsabers here (thanks, I’m proud of the title). I’m not sure if I’m the one referred to by Xenia as ‘starting it all’ but she’s obviously failed to take into consideration the readers.
I’ve had hundreds of comments and e-mails from people who’ve since gone and compared their Lime Crime eyeshadows to the TKB products, which have identical ingredients, and send me photographs of their swatches. I can’t tell them apart by my eye.
The list of dupes we have is a rough estimate, and we’re working on getting samples of every Lime Crime eyeshadow to finally make a comparative set of swatches and get them analysed and photographed professionally.
Why Lime Crime? They’re the first of many, they just happened to be the repackagers I stumbled onto first. I bought into the brand, I thought I was getting something bright, something unique and original, and when it arrived I found I already had exactly the same thing from somewhere else. I’m a customer like any other, I just happened to have a platform to voice my outrage on.
I don’t know anything about Lime Crime but Bella you looked SUPER cute in your 2nd picture =)
Ditto to ceecee…I say, ehh, it’s just makeup right?
But Bella, seriously the pink on you is just wonderful! so cute.
My problem is that I loved Doe’s blog and that I bought her eyeshadows for I really supported the idea of a girl who came out of nothing creating her own unique products.
After I spent more than a 100$ on Lime Crime I’ve found out about the repackaging thing. I’m brazilian. 100$ is a REALLY big buy. I’m a college student and I can’t spend money easily….
So, I e-mailed Xenia about all the things I’ve heard and she just answered that it was ridiculous, but, while I’ve asked for her version of the story, she did not make anything clear to me.
Then I saw comments being deleted. Most were not accusing but making questions. I felt worried…
Then I made a bigger research and found about other scams and things like this….
I felt really disappointed. And, of course, angry.
Since I did not get an answer from Doe I started to post on every single blog I’ve found. Maybe her fans had the answers.
While I’m glad that she tried to explain herself, and I wish she’d do that when we first asked about her, her video is not actually like it should be…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nccNupgAHtw
I’ve seen this video from other company and, really, this is how Doe’s video should be.
There’s a video just like hers at TKB….
I’m not on a witch hunt. I just want things to be clear. If she is repackaging I’d like to hear her saying it I’d respect her a lot more.
If she is not repackaging I’d wish she’d explain why the colors look so much alike and, if proven she’s not repackaging, I’d really apologize!
I’m glad she posted a video. I wish she’d not call everyone haters. While some people are being insane and rude and while the fake-comment is an absurd most of people are just making questions. Most people are just disappointed costumers.
When you promise something unique, hand-made, you expect it…
I’m not buying from them anymore, but I’ll enjoy my products when then arrive and then I’ll start to buy from companies who truly make their own products and that I know I can trust.
Well I’m glad you’re not a journalist if you’re not willing to research and ask the hard questions. You seem to have already have a bias in favor of her, not that there isn’t already bias against her. If she had owned up from the start like one other mineral makeup company it wouldn’t be an issue.
Notice how the Gothique post you linked to has already disappeared? Because Miss Doe threatened her with legal action if she didn’t take it down. And then when Gothique’s retraction wasn’t good enough, Doe forced her into using an “apology” that Doe wrote herself.
That’s pretty drastic actions for one review blog who said “the lipsticks aren’t that great and and aren’t worth the money,” don’t you think? An honest business owner wouldn’t resort to such Internet Drama antics, right?
You know, this all seems a little ridiculous to me. While I imagine that if one was to truly get down to bottom of this controversy, the answer would lie somewhere between column A and column B. I do think that if TKB were Lime Crime’s wholesaler, and they felt they were in any way in danger of being linked to unethical business practices, even inderectly, they would have publicly distanced themselves from Lime Crime. However, they did not, which tells me that either they are NOT Lime Crime’s distributor, or they don’t feel that these claims can be substantiated. Another point: I have, on more occasions than I can count, purchased products that I was unhappy with and/or felt didn’t live stand up to a the claims of the company who sold them. Or that I felt simply weren’t worth they hefty price tag. While I may have been disappointed, even irritated, I have never felt the kind of anger, or felt the need to persue the kind of crusade against a company, like that which I have seen in regard to Lime Crime. I mean, we’re not talking about sweat shops or abusing of animals here. If you don’t like the product and don’t feel that it’s worth the money, don’t buy it. It’s as simple as that. IF these claims are true, it will all come out in the wash eventually. People are smart enough to make their own choices. Actively trying to sabotage someone’s comany in this manor is immature and lacks credibility. If you people are truly so concerned about ethical business practices, contact the Better Business Bureau and get a valid investigation under way. If you are going to demand that Lime Crime to put its money where its mouth is, so should you.
So, imagine my delight at seeing my blog mentioned on Afrobella! I’m honored, but also a bit dumb-founded to see that I’ve been lumped into a group of Lime Crime “disparagers.”
Hopefully my blog posts regarding the brand speak for themselves, but for you and your readers, I’d love to clarify that I have nothing against Xenia or Lime Crime.
As a beauty blogger, I consider it my journalistic responsiblity to discuss things that are vital to the conversation of the time. The Lime Crime debacle was one such example.
I’ve not harped on about the situation, aside from a review of the line and a tutorial of a look that I created with it (which was actually positive and written well before any controversy) I’ve only posted twice about Lime Crime. My initial post comparing wholesale to retail pigments wasn’t even solely about Lime Crime, it featured several other brand comparisons as well.
I, like you, contacted Xenia, with whom I’ve communicated before. I did not receive a direct response, but her infamous YouTube response was posted the next day, so I wrote a follow up to update my readers. I feel that it was unbiased, and in fact, I even pointed out examples of major companies doing similar things to what Lime Crime is accused of doing.
I do feel it important to point out that while Xenia makes it sound like the controversy has been blown out of proportion by a small but loud group of bloggers, reports show that since I published my Mica Comparison in September, over 67% of the visitors have come to read specifically about this issue. That’s several thousand visits, so obviously, people do care.
Again, I want to reiterate, I’m not trying to debase Xenia, or ruin her business. I followed her for years before she even created Lime Crime, at one time, my site was even featured on the “press” page of Lime Crime’s website. I simply feel like it’s important to share information as openly and honestly as I can.
Thanks again for the mention, I hope you and your readers will drop by OutInAPout.com sometime for some of my less controversial posts! 🙂
OK there are alot of people here saying they know how makeup is made and that if you know the ins and outs of how it is made you can clearly see that Doe Deere’s is repackaged. First of all, I work for an independent makeup company run by Samala Robingson. I am a makeup artist and have seen how makeup has been make many times and have even made my own colours. you are all saying that the way she makes her eyeshadow is exactly the same as TKB, well im sorry but this is how most makeup companies make colours, it does not mean they are repackaged or are ‘copying’ one another, this is just the basic and common way of making colours. Also you are complaining about the way she is making it, please she isnt selling the sample, she is just showing you how she makes it, im sure she actually takes alot more care when making her samples and she would also give them a fomula, not just the sample. I know you are all going to jump on this comment but these are the facts, Doe Deere is as involved as one can be when it comes to making makeup products. And just because TKB did not state whether her colours are repackaged from them it does not mean they are, if they say “no” then other companies who repackage there colours from them could pull out or make complaints that private information was released, even if it was about another company. It is honestly upsetting how you are all assuming the worst or thinking you know how makeup is made because I can tell you, everyone on this comment thread has it wrong. Please dont think im just a hardcore fan of Doe Deere’s or that im just trying to revive a debate, This is just the facts, coming from a professional in the makeup industry. Please stop spreading these bad rumours because you are all trying to find evidence against her where there isnt any. I also understand alot of you are just worried customers and even fans who just want answers and that is your right and good on you for taking an interest instead of just using the product, but please understand none of what these people are saying is actual evidence that she is lying or repackaging. I dont know whether she does or not but nothing anyone is saying is hard evidence. Please keep this in mind.
I’m not going to claim for certain Doe repackages or not. There is a big possibility she does but I don’t think comparison of colors is sufficient enough to use as proof. (You can have tons of different combinations of colors to make similar looking product colors and I honestly don’t think our ability to tell colors apart is THAT trustworthy). I think the only way we could know for sure is by analyzing the amount of each chemical that went in her products and comparing with others but face it, this isn’t that easy to do. One of the points that was brought up was, if TKB does sell to Doe, and know she is repackaging, wouldn’t they stop selling to her? This is a logical question, but I disagree. The definition of wholesaling is for people who buy from them to resell. In other words, TKB can’t say jack squat on how much someone charges the wholesaled goods. Plus no matter how much the wholesaled goods are going for, it doesn’t change that TKB made a sale to them, so likely they wouldn’t want to lose that sale even if a person that buys from them is making a whole lot of money off it. But like I said, whether Doe does buy from TKB or others, it’s hard to tell just by color swatches. Now, I do want to shed some light on what Doe says that makes me question her “process.” Doe herself claims she is no chemist… and after seeing the video, and her claims I agree. If she had better knowledge of how chemists work, she would’ve come up with a more convincing story. I am a chemist and will provide my views. Maybe you’ll agree with the logic or not… please comment. She said she makes a color sample and sends it off to a lab where chemists match the color. She seems to believe chemists have some magical device that tells you exactly what the components are in a given sample. I’m not saying there’s not a possibilty this magical device doesn’t exist… but if it did, I’m sure chemists would have better use of it then to figure out the color composition in some formula.. which could be very well avoided if Doe just wrote down how much of what she mixed. The chemists could “match” the colors close enough… but if that’s what Doe means, why the hell do you need chemists to do that? It’s just unnecessary use of expensive labor. (I also don’t think she realizes how much you have to pay REAL scientists) But even this is speculation and I don’t consider it proof enough. However, I do not support Lime Crime for the simple fact that she is charging a whole lot for items that you can find a really cheaper substitute. Let’s say for the sake of argument that she does make her own stuff and she has to charge a lot because her super amazing process takes a lot of money. If she reached the similar products, that’s really bad efficiency. It’s her choice to be efficient or not, but she’s making the customers pay for this inefficiency. I wonder how she is still so popular and expanding… If she can get away with charging a whole lot for similar products, what is she doing that’s so novel? This isn’t a sarcastic question, I sincerely want to know. People aren’t dumb. But yet, she’s making them pay the extra for similar goods?
For the price she’s charging, I’d rather buy Mac or a nice lipstick from Sephora. I am sticking to well-known brands 🙂
I bought the entire shadow line and 3 lipsticks. Makeup is makeup and I owe allegience to no one. I really like the lipsticks and the eyeshadows work great. If they are repacks then I paid for the brand. Such is consumerism and live and learn. I’ve conversed via email with Doe and Mark and neither were rude or short. I say let her do her thing and if you are adverse, don’t buy but leave well enough alone. There is makeup out there for everyone. I’ve seen way worse treatment of consumers by brand personas and I don’t have a personal experience with Doe that would lead me to call her a fraud or disrespectful. I love the blog post here and your hair!
Bella-
As to whether anyone would be placated by Doe saying “Yes, I’ve made some poor business choices, and yes I’ve over reacted. I was wrong, this is what we’re going to be doing with Lime Crime going forward, I hope that the excellent XYZ that comes out in a month will help those of you who feel in some way hurt enjoy Lime Crime again.”
I would. I would wait until she did her next thing and some others reviewed it before considering buying it- once burned, twice shy- but if she was willing to be honest and not treat her customers like children, I’d give her another chance.
A signifegent part of Lime Crime’s/her (since LC is mostly Doe, I’m gonna stick to single person pronouns) problem is that her clientel includes largely other young women who are fiercely creative. A big part of the brand is the positioning- Us girls against the boring world! Make the change you want to see! Indie creative twee things!- and so it’s a much bigger blow when it turns out she has possibly been lying twelve ways to Sunday. Her brand fully tied in with her image- it wouldn’t be so popular if there were pictures of Mark with dolly false eyelashes. Not that he’s not a swell fella, but pointing out that there’s a reason Doe is the half of Lime Crime who serves as figurehead.
Anyway, I don’t want to make this too long. Basically, if Doe was all “These are repackaged, but I feel my curatorial and packaging skills add value, and these other things I’m working on will be original” that would go a long way, though admittedly not as far as “I shouldn’t have harassed you, Blogger X, for posting your honest, if unflattering opinion. I will no longer do that or refuse to approve comments based on my distaste for the questions they raise.” Of course, she’d also have to follow through on it, and allow the people who want to say “You know what? Not gonna be fooled twice” to do so, but being willing to take one’s licks counts for a lot when winning back customers who have cooled on you.
I’m actually glad TKB is staying out of this dramatic scenario!! good for them!
I love reading her blog and seeing her colorful looks – I started reading all these blogs about her being dishonest out of curiosity. As one of the other commenters mentioned – it seems out of proportion for people to be SO ANGRY about this. It’s not like your mother lied to you – if Doe is lying – who cares?
If I expected all the creative people who make the things I enjoy to be GOOD PEOPLE I’d have no music to listen to, no books to read, probably no clothes to wear.
So I really wonder where all the anger and hate is coming from.
can you elaborate on this proof? just curious
i love ur comment kittpow, its so true
I was wondering the same thing! It seems as though people really have nothing better to do than to bash others online, and for what reason? What personal gain or satisfaction are people getting out of this? I read a very hate-filled blog on EncyclopediaDramatica about Doe Deere’s alleged business practices, and saw that this person actually took the time to defile this woman’s character in a very angry, immature manner. I’m wondering what personal harm has Doe inflicted on this person to deserve such character assassination? It all seems very immature, and a huge waste of time.
Also, I noticed one person commented on how Lime Crime “makes” her customers pay a huge price for her products, and I wanted to clarify something. No one is forcing anyone to pay any price for any product. If someone feels that a price is too high for the product they wish to purchase, the logical solution is to not buy the product. For example, I will not purchase certain name brand clothing simply for the fact that I think they blow up prices for cheaply made clothing, simply to support a brand name. This is my choice, and why I usually choose not to pay for name brands. You pay for the name, not just for the materials.
IMHO, I think that the big issue with Doe repackaging is the fact that she continues to LIE about it and the fact that she’s been very mean and hateful to bloggers who don’t like her product. She’s threatened people with legal action for saying that they don’t like her product (not just Gothique but this girl on YouTube also). To me, that is awful business practice. For all of you who are saying that repackaging/marking up is just what businesses do, let me ask you this. How would you feel if you went and bought a pair of 700 dollar Christian Louboutin’s only to find out that they’re selling the exact same shoe (not a knock off, the EXACT SAME SHOE) at the flea market for 10 dollars and the only difference is that the flea market shoes don’t come with the box? You’d be pissed off, no? I know I would. That’s f’n craziness. Now i think that it would be an entirely different story if Doe bought the micas from TKB and mixed colors up herself. No one would be complaining about that. It’s the fact that her 20 dollar product is the exact same as something you can get for 2 dollars! That’s ridiculous and honey if MAC or NARS or any other brand that i’d actually pay 20 bucks for an eyeshadow did that, i’d be online ranting and raving and calling for their heads on a motherflippin platter! There’s also been several other controversies that Doe has been involved in including a scam involving asking people to donate to an animal shelter that she apparently made up and stealing clothing designs from Shrinkle aka Amy aka the lady who makes Sugarpill cosmetics. Also, for those of you who asked why wouldn’t TKB distance themselves from her publicly.. um.. because they don’t care? They don’t care if she repackages the stuff and sells it for 100 dollars a jar as long as they get their cut. They’re a wholeseller. They could care less what you do with the product after you get it. Now I will say that there are some people who are waaaaaayyyyyy worse than Doe (like Kathy from Bitchslap cosmetics who is selling things that aren’t even safe for the eye on her website as eyeshadow), but I think that the Doe backlash is totally warranted.
Doe Deere is just vile. Straight up.
There is such laws as ditance selling laws that ALL online companies have to abide by
Where do TKB get their mica’s from? Can they be accused of re-packageing from their wholsalers and marking them up as that is exactly what they do, that’s business. They don’t make them either but I get the message that the don’t charge exhorbitantly
I’m new to all this lime crime controversy but I do think it seems to be very personal to her. The reason I say that is the fact that lots of sellers are doing similar things but don’t appear to be in the limelight. I’m trying to think of an example here and one that springs to mind is a finishing powder product that contains mica. Just plain mica, nothing else. It’s great as a finishing powder but isn’t that cheating a bit? Now there’s lots of companies doing that but nothing is being highlighted or maybe it’s the fact that no-one has noticed.. As someone before has mentioned no-one is beign forced to buy her things so it does now seem a little bit odd how far some of these blogs are going to prove their point. Just my opinion I know but I think it’s all just a little bit weird.
I am intrigued by the controversy with repackaging, as well. Sooo many companies (not just makeup companies) do it. Clearly all the people who are furious have no concept of modern commerce. I work for a company who makes several different products, one example of which are car brake pads. We buy them from our vendors and even sell them to our competitors, and they “repackage” them and sell them as their own and we know this. There is nothing criminal going on at all – it would only be criminal if the wholesaler brought suit. Anyway, no I’m not a Doe Deere fan or hater, I just thought I’d point out that most of the haters seem to be coming from a perspective that is ignorant of business and production.
I totally agree with this! You are paying for the brand, why is that such a bad thing? I feel like a lot of people are just bemoaning extremely common business practices and Lime Crime is a target because it is an indie brand that is getting a lot of mainstream/hipster hype and success because it curated a brand that appealed to that demographic, unlike other make up brands that may be repacking who may appeal to a more niche group than “Nylon Readers.”
It seems like there’s really only one way to get the brightest blue, there is only so much you can do to improve a formula. Building a brand is an actually extremely time consuming task and a lot more difficult than just setting up a twitter account. What is wrong with her time and effort building a brand being compensated?
I’m confused about the mass amount of hate as well. I just don’t get it.
Especially since I bought one of her lipsticks before I knew anything about the company, and it’s literally the best lipstick I own. Opaque, superbright, and moisturizing, and just stays on all night, rain or shine, even after meals and drinks and sweat and dancing, etc. You wake up in the morning and it still looks perfect. (It’s Retrofuturist, if anyone’s wondering). I liked it so much, I bought several more colors.
People go on and on about how her makeup’s repackaged, but it her lipsticks are then how come you can’t find half those colors any place else?
As a creator of mineral makeup, I also buy my ingredients from TKB. They are a great resource, but as I said, they are ingredients. I buy micas, oxides, etc, and I mix everything myself. I have documentation of every formula I have, every color I have created, so on. I will admit that I have thought about repackaging micas, but the truth of the matter is that although micas are really nice, without some kind of base powder added to them, the lasting power is cut short, and all you have is shimmery powder that looks good for a little while. I don’t necessarily have a problem with repackaging, however, when you have branded yourself on being creative, and plainly stating that everything made ans sold is of your own design and creation, that is what you live up to. Stating that and then using something that is not of your design and creation does and should leave people with a bad taste in their mouth. I am NOT saying this is what she has or is doing, but if it is and she bluntly lies about it then she is in the wrong. Beauty From The Earth has repackaged as well as created their own products. Sometimes this is a way to get off the ground while getting your own products going. They have, since all of this LC business came out, stated that they have done this and they have gone so far as to label what is repackaged and most of them are now discontinued. This is good business. From what I understand Doe/Xenia has not and has gone so far as to be hateful about it. This in my eyes gives all of us who are working hard to truly create our own products a bad name and I myself will not purchase from her or associate myself with her.
I just have to comment here, if anything but to get this out of my system. (thanks for the opportunity to rant)
I hate what wolves have been formed out of this.
Those that are against Lime Crime constantly call on LC and LC fans as bullies. They say they get pushed around, they say there are calls to attack bloggers who give negative reviews (before you comment, I’ve seen it all with my own eyes. Would I consider what happened with Temptalia a “call to attack”? absolutely not). What the truth is now? They are now the bullies and attackers. God forbid anyone (especially a blogger) say anything good about Lime Crime.
If you’re a blogger and you post about Lime Crime? It could be the most dry, objective review that offers multiple disclaimers stating it is solely a product review and not of the company and instantly the blog gets numerous hateful comments and people unfollowing like they are avoiding leprosy. God forbid you like one of the products- that must a)make you a bad person b)a bad person who doesn’t have any ethics or morals c)in cahoots with the owner d)benefiting/profiting in some way e)a sheeple.
I have tried the products- I have never experienced any problems. I love them and would recommend them. They are fantastic, amazing products. The company is also allowed to price them at whatever the hell they damn please, regardless of what the cost was to them.
As far as the repackaging claim? You know what, I believe it. And you know what else? Who gives a good damn. My response is a story about a ring I purchased at Neiman Marcus.
I stumbled upon this grotesquely huge flower and pearl ring priced for $110. I thought about it for a good week and finally decided to go back to buy it. Exactly one month later the exact same ring was being sold at Target for $10. No, not one similar to it, not a dupe, not anything but literally the exact same ring from the exact same manufacturer and company. Did I get pissed at Neiman Marcus? Or at Target? Did I feel like I was scammed? Hell no. It was my choice as a consumer; not an entitlement! I can’t tell you how often I see brand names repackaging other products from other companies. Why? For the most part there are only a handful of parent companies. You think Loreal and Maybelline are different companies? Think again. How about MAC and clinique? Nope, they’re the same company. Olay, Max Factor, Cover Girl? The same. This list goes on and on…
We are conditioned to look at them as separate entities because that is how they are able to capitalize on multiple avenues and from multiple target audiences. There’s a reason dupes look the same so often, and it is because they are the same product.
With LC, what did they do? TKB isn’t a make-up company it is a company that sells pigments and ingredients used to make makeup. They are a company whose purpose is to sell ingredients to makeup companies to use, repackage, and sell. The pigments sold from TKB were then added to different ingredients and additives (that did not alter the colors) by LC and then packaged and sold. AS THEY WERE INTENDED TO BE. This is how makeup works, or do people not know this?
To everyone who hates LC, I say this:
I respect your opinion and while I disagree I understand your side. Stop bullying and harassing those who support the brand. It is said that the human species always needs an antagonist, an enemy. That is exactly what I am seeing in this situation. Just because some does or does not like the product, does not make them your antagonist.
The only thing I do when I see people spazzing out over Limecrime is point them at the controversy and go on my merry way. I don’t think that’d count as bullying or harassing. Yes, some people do take it too far, but I don’t feel that warning someone against a brand would be any worse than warning someone not to jump off of a bridge. Xenia has blatantly lied to customers, attacked and threatened (the lawsuit against a review? That is a threat punishable by law and counts as harassment) people openly on various websites, included people who have stated again and again that they do not want to be included, used racial stereotypes [and then refused to even make a ‘true’ apology about them], and other terrible things. She is nowhere near as bad as glittersniffer, but out of the top 5 companies to avoid, she is my #2.
I realize this is an old blog, but since we’re dealing with this issue of fraud, deciet and protecting the consumer, I thought you should know that the BBB is in itself a scam. The BBB is a franchise, not a government agency. They hold no authority on ANYTHING, and in recent years have extorted hundreds and even thousands of dollars from small buisness owners. You should NOT trust the BBB or their ratings when trying to decide if a company is reputable to do business with. All you have to do to be BBB accredited and approved is to pay them a large fee and keep up with your yearly “dues”. Suspiciously, buisnesses who declined to pay BBB phone-solicitors were given false reviews and low grades without justifcation or notification. 20/20 did an investigation on them and were quickly able to get a fake business under the name of Hamas (a terrorist organization) approved with an A rating. They do no investigations, the only real repurcussions a business can recieve is a low rating with them which can be quickly erased or changed by paying them a large fee. The BBB CEO’s make hundreds of thousands of dollars by misleading the public and abusing the trust of their (unworthy) good reputation. Many people have been duped by con artists and scam companies due to their good faith in this shady franchise. Please do your research and do not trust a BBB rating.
I am kinda late on this…. I was going to purchase some lipsticks from LimeCrime but read on Temptalia in her comment section… So basically she gets her pigments from a wholesaler and sells that in the purple unicorn tube? Is that what everyone means by ‘repackaging’ ? And is this what the whole drama and scam is about behind the brand? I’ve always liked MAC Cosmetics and I will always stick with them and not abandon them. I guess for being a brand new makeup company, you still have a long way to go to make a mark in the beauty industry.